go ayeshe!
amusing title for a post eh? sister sonia the social pariah. much as i would like to claim that as one of my witty inventions, i”m afraid the glory must be given over to one Pickled Politics commentator, who goes by the name Ashik. it sounds as though it ought to be from a monty python sketch, or a Carry On film, perhaps.
the thread, titled the “rise of secularism” like many others on Pickled Politics, soon veered off topic, well perhaps not really, as i was explaining my take on the “secular” or what we ought to keep in mind in thinking about religion, the state, power and the “secular” : it”s all about thinking of the power of religious institutions and their intertwingling (good word) and interdependence with State apparatus and authority. It”s important to make clear what one is talking about as so many different opinions/views seem to be shoved under the label “secularism” .
“but in any case, i thought the whole point of the ’secular’ was that you have whatever religion you have, because one religion over another isn’t promoted by the State apparatus. this would seem to me, to give more people religious freedom, given that people want to follow different religions.
clearly what people think of as secular or (secularism) must be different, because so often i hear people talking about what individuals are doing, in the “public sphereâ€. which is rot of course, because the difference between a secular state and a non-secular state, (or the way it should be) is the influence, or intertwining of religious institutions and state authority.
if you’re an individual hanging about preaching on street corners, that’s one thing. that’s not a problem for most people really. not at all. people generally want to have religious freedom.
now for some reason the French seem to understand things somewhat differently, so perhaps that’s muddied the waters.
I wouldn’t define as a ’secularist’ if that meant interfering with what individuals who have no state authority are doing - whether thats hanging about the streets preaching islam, wearing outlandish clothes or preaching satanism.
but definitely i am a secularist when it comes to de-linking the power of religious insitutions with the State authority and apparatus. Most definitely so. what Religion you follow or not SHOULD NOT have any connection with what rights you have as a citizen. if everyone has the right to wear something they want, so if your choice is religious based that’s up to you. of course similarly, when others aren’t given the freedom to wear what they want, on the grounds of religion, you can’t expect special favours, not on the grounds of religion anyway. it should be on the grounds of individuality, and it should be advocating similar freedom of choice for other people. ( like, think uniforms people)”
Our friend Ashik, who doesn”t seem inclined to discuss state power and religion, instead goes in for “the kill” and gives me and the readers a good dose of unadulterated community authoritarianism:
” Sonia: ‘ …have every right (and if I don’t I bloody well should do) to criticise that religion without people suggesting i am ‘hating muslims’. that’s bollocks because obviously my family is muslim and in their eyes i am one too…just because i dont like the picture of God [the religion paints] doesn’t mean i don’t have the relationships, empathy and connections to those who choose to believe in that religion. that’s entirely their business, and what I ask for simply is to be able to discuss my views alongside listening to them say what their views are. the prophet is a historical figure and does not belong to anyone.’
In your case Sonia you have done a very unIslamic and unBengali (according to scripture and Bengali cultural mores) thing by marrying [name deleted- he actually decided to try and drag my husband into this by name, heh]. Therefore you are no longer a Muslim. Hence your criticisms have to be seen in this context. You are unlikely to be engaged in mere philosophical and intellectual criticism of religious/Islamic dogma but in validating your own lifestyle choice, with which (knowing Bengalis) members of your own family no doubt have grave concerns.
Personally I think that if you are happy with your choice and the consequences then there is little need for you to comment (almost always negatively) on a religio-cultural identity you have voluntarily left behind. “
now this is a common thing one hears..okay they don”t want to argue with you, they say you”re happy with your choice (yes thank you I am, and thank you for your acceptance, which we must commend him for) yes i left voluntarily (well obviously, would i leave “involuntarily”?) You are no longer a Muslim, just leave us alone, what”s with all this commentary? that part of your life is over! (which it clearly isn”t - i pointed out that thankfully the bit about god and hell is thankfully over. and whilst one may be finally feeling free to let loose, (after all those years of involuntary holding on one”s tongue) mentally, the reality is hardly one where you are hardly able to “come out” to your community without inviting fatwas and whatnots, and frankly, i don”t see why i should have to court that kind of notoriety, what would i do with a fatwa?)
So its very intriguing that this argument keeps cropping up - what are these community elder people afraid of? (apart from the usual losing face, hysterical “keep it all in the family” type secrecy we are obsessed with) commentary from the likes of me yes of course is not going to “sway” some hardcore religious believers/core community members (Aunties and mother-in-laws of the Matriarchy making up the masses, alongside whom range some puny men who pass themselves off as mullahs/head of tribe etc.) which is fine as i”m not out to “convert” the religious of their belief, or to rob people of their families, but to tell my story, and to perhaps provide a bit of sanity to all those undergoing similar struggles. and my story, like other people”s story, has plenty of relevance for many other people who are feeling overwhelmed by social control . (And the trying to make you feel as if you”re being terrible! terrible! to your family to want to have your own thoughts, to highlight the social and moral injustices you nay perceive, and by doing so this is shaming your tribe your community! ) Enforced Patriotism: Loyalty to the Group and if there isn”t a problem, why there should be no threat in me telling my story. Interestingly, the only criticism forthcoming is “well you”re a bad person, you”ve broken our rules, you make our community look bad, now fuck off. ” its all obsession with appearances. clearly no interest in learning/self-critique, what would we want with that!?
fat lot of good spirituality will do for those obsessed with maintaining face. it”s a materialistic earthly obsession if you ask me. still humans will be humans it seems. for whatever reason, many people want us to switch off our commentary, (cult-like behaviour, that) as if the process we have been through is not significant, not important for social learning. Of course those things are not important, the only thing is to be an obedient member of the group. And finally as if one can actually extricate oneself from pre-existing social bonds, expectations - without having completely “left behind” the family unit. Stark choices as I pointed out to Ashik. Writers like the Apostate share with us the heart-rending and stark choices people have to make if they want to live their own lives with little or no subterfuge.
Anyhow, the point of this post is not really about religion per se, its about groups exerting stringent social control over members. which of course religio-cultural groups have done in history certainly, and many carry on attempting to do so today, and the added edge is of course that if you dare to question too much, you”re outside the bounds of acceptability and there”s the extra god will get you -Â trick. cunning eh. not will you be a pariah in this world but you won”t get any virgins in the next! ( not that as a woman you”re getting that much of a good deal anyway)
but ashik provides us with some interesting ethnographic insight: i love it when this sort of thing comes along, because they are doing the reform work for us: highlighting the bigoted attitudes present in so much community politics:
“Regardless of what members of PP think, you have done the worst possible thing a Bengali gal can do ie. marry out of culture/religion. You also admit to being an apostate. You are a social pariah and happy about it, so why continue to feign any interest in culturo-religious matters for which you admit you care very little? They no longer impact upon you. Your family is in Bangladesh, over 1000 miles away. Be the assimilated person you want to be. Don’t let the gnawing insecurities and self doubts play so on your mind. In any case what you have to say on Bengali and Muslim culture will have little weight,. Regardless of how well you put your argument.
…”Whether one is a Sylheti or Dhakaiya, a rickshaw puller or the daughter of the Prime Minister, Bengalis/South Asians tend to be of one voice when it comes to voicing their opinions about inter-racial marriages. Especially those involving women marrying out. There is a reason mothers from your ‘circle’ in Bangladesh won’t leave you alone with their daughters. They think you’ll ‘influence’ them to do something similar.”
and some of the best bits:
“bengali girls are feisty and fight for their rights, that’s great, but they don’t go beyond the pale as you have. Social conditioning and all (more effective than any political ideology).”
shock horror! whatever happened to our izzat based communities eh? a nice piece of xenophobic misogyny. there we go, brother ashik tells us all - anytime someone talks about social conditioning, all the hyenas fall upon him/her denying such social conditioning, oh no! no these things do not exist ( we must preserve a good community image). At least Ashik is honest about the society he finds himself in - well done mate ( i bet he would be surprised to see this kind of praise from me, the poor dear thought i”d be in tears or something)
thank you for exposing the sort of thinking that goes on amongst the traditionalists and the community sticklers: ooh! you”re bad girls and boys you are! haram haram! you will become a social pariah! Yes it is social conditioning, and it is successful, why wouldn”t it be, threatening to make someone an outcast is an old old trick, played by lots and lots of community elder types. Even today, it has a big hold on our imagination, daring to take a steps that take us into “uncharted territory” -what support mechanisms will you have? if your society and community turn their backs on you, then that is indeed quite heavy emotional blackmail.
so when anyone wants to write commentary on immense social, emotional, psychological issues this kind of “pressure” is brought to bear. ” Oh just go quietly and don”t slam the door behind you!” It”s oppressive if nothing else was, its trying to make you invisible, voiceless, impact-less. we don”t want the voices of ex-muslim women who”ve had to fight community prejudice and continue to do so, aired, ooh no, we want to keep the picture of the “sisterhood” homogeneous. (and a sisterhood obedient to the Authority of the Elders, be that what it may, Allah or not) and if you”re ex-sisterhood, well hasta la vista baby! Â Yup, silence the voices. Don”t let them speak! we can”t have any social commentary thanks very much.
Back to Ayshe & Andi:Â
“Being rather impressionable, Murat starts becoming radicalized. Here he speaks to Andi, who”s dating his sister: “Stay away, Andi! I have recently come to know the true Islam, and it doesn”t allow my sister to mess around with an infidel.” (The book”s title is “Invitation to Jihad.”)
nothing wrong with that) didn”t look too much like a market but more like big powerful institutions to me. why pretend ?
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