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	<title>Comments on: free the free market please</title>
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	<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/</link>
	<description>Journal : Critique &#038; Commentary: On the Human Condition</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: Arif</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-65996</link>
		<dc:creator>Arif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-65996</guid>
		<description>Nice article, your anger and impatience shows through - think how you'd feel if you had studied economics at university and had to read truckloads of articles making the same assumptions about free market economies and coming to the conclusion that societies should change in order to benefit from this great treasure.

Anyway, I'll try to suppress my bitterness.  In fact, by drawing on the stuff I studied, I will deploy an observation about the nature of the collaborative free market you suggest.  It would have to be embedded in a kind of society which we are systematically destroying in order to make an atomised society which is important for the kinds of free markets which seem to work so well in econometric models.

The kind of society where there is trust between people within the market - built on what?  Many-sided relationships, repeated interaction, common internalised values....  These sorts of things require enduring relationships with people and long-term expectations of stability and subtle sanctions which can easily become oppressive and coercive in turn.

What kind of economy would such a society produce - probably one which develops more slowly and, let us face what we see happen to such societies now and in the recent past, vulnerable to destruction and dispossession by more rapacious socio-economic models.

Change needs to come about slowly - by taking back bits of control over what we as individuals and groups produce and consume.  Living simply and using local resources as much as possible.  Any new model we raise in opposition will have itsown problems as people do not fit into models and we hate the results of being forced to do so.  Phenomenologically, a free market would be a market where people feel their decisions are not coerced.  So many people feel free now as they naturalise their conditioning and take as given the conditions under which they make their choices.  If you and I feel unfree, it is because we have questioned the conditions and criteria of choice presented to us - perhaps through an interest in the conditions in which production takes place, the impacts of our consumption of the environment or the limitation of choices to things which seem superficial and leave only unethical outcomes, or the power which it has given to impersonal organisations to construct the conditions under which we work, play and take political decisions.

Draw attention to these, and the game starts to unravel.  The high priests of economics will have to compete with atheists and humanists just as all other religions have to.  But please let's not construct a new Marxist-like religion, for one thing it'll be an excuse to create more modules of indoctrination at university to crush us!  David Harvey is fun and provides radical critiques, but he still does not see that technological development can go in different socially conditioned directions which have power implications which aren't neutral in their societal impacts.  I reckon we should focus on the kind of society we want and let the economic theorists follow!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article, your anger and impatience shows through - think how you&#8217;d feel if you had studied economics at university and had to read truckloads of articles making the same assumptions about free market economies and coming to the conclusion that societies should change in order to benefit from this great treasure.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;ll try to suppress my bitterness.  In fact, by drawing on the stuff I studied, I will deploy an observation about the nature of the collaborative free market you suggest.  It would have to be embedded in a kind of society which we are systematically destroying in order to make an atomised society which is important for the kinds of free markets which seem to work so well in econometric models.</p>
<p>The kind of society where there is trust between people within the market - built on what?  Many-sided relationships, repeated interaction, common internalised values&#8230;.  These sorts of things require enduring relationships with people and long-term expectations of stability and subtle sanctions which can easily become oppressive and coercive in turn.</p>
<p>What kind of economy would such a society produce - probably one which develops more slowly and, let us face what we see happen to such societies now and in the recent past, vulnerable to destruction and dispossession by more rapacious socio-economic models.</p>
<p>Change needs to come about slowly - by taking back bits of control over what we as individuals and groups produce and consume.  Living simply and using local resources as much as possible.  Any new model we raise in opposition will have itsown problems as people do not fit into models and we hate the results of being forced to do so.  Phenomenologically, a free market would be a market where people feel their decisions are not coerced.  So many people feel free now as they naturalise their conditioning and take as given the conditions under which they make their choices.  If you and I feel unfree, it is because we have questioned the conditions and criteria of choice presented to us - perhaps through an interest in the conditions in which production takes place, the impacts of our consumption of the environment or the limitation of choices to things which seem superficial and leave only unethical outcomes, or the power which it has given to impersonal organisations to construct the conditions under which we work, play and take political decisions.</p>
<p>Draw attention to these, and the game starts to unravel.  The high priests of economics will have to compete with atheists and humanists just as all other religions have to.  But please let&#8217;s not construct a new Marxist-like religion, for one thing it&#8217;ll be an excuse to create more modules of indoctrination at university to crush us!  David Harvey is fun and provides radical critiques, but he still does not see that technological development can go in different socially conditioned directions which have power implications which aren&#8217;t neutral in their societal impacts.  I reckon we should focus on the kind of society we want and let the economic theorists follow!</p>
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		<title>By: The Past; Present; and Future &#187; Corporate Bullshit: Lies?</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-36659</link>
		<dc:creator>The Past; Present; and Future &#187; Corporate Bullshit: Lies?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-36659</guid>
		<description>[...] er..why can&#8217;t they just tell the truth -we&#8217;ll do all this in the quest for profits. oh in the name of CSR we&#8217;ll do a bit of this and that..but we&#8217;re not really interested in everyone getting the medicine they need - maybe a few lucky folks here and there so we can look good occasionally..but you africans in need of cheap drugs - forget it. At least we might &#8216;respect&#8217; them a bit more. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] er..why can&#8217;t they just tell the truth -we&#8217;ll do all this in the quest for profits. oh in the name of CSR we&#8217;ll do a bit of this and that..but we&#8217;re not really interested in everyone getting the medicine they need - maybe a few lucky folks here and there so we can look good occasionally..but you africans in need of cheap drugs - forget it. At least we might &#8216;respect&#8217; them a bit more. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: thruflo</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-18765</link>
		<dc:creator>thruflo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 18:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-18765</guid>
		<description>freedom from and freedom to</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>freedom from and freedom to</p>
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		<title>By: sonia</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-15044</link>
		<dc:creator>sonia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 11:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-15044</guid>
		<description>you're welcome tasneem - you had some interesting stuff on your site. i like the bits about anarchy and open-source..so stick around!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re welcome tasneem - you had some interesting stuff on your site. i like the bits about anarchy and open-source..so stick around!</p>
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		<title>By: Tasneem</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-15038</link>
		<dc:creator>Tasneem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 10:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-15038</guid>
		<description>Bloggerwise, there are two types: linkers and writers. [There is, as always, a grey area where types like myself belong]. You seem to be an excellent writer with powerful analysis. Keep up prolific commentary... and thanks for commenting on my blog..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bloggerwise, there are two types: linkers and writers. [There is, as always, a grey area where types like myself belong]. You seem to be an excellent writer with powerful analysis. Keep up prolific commentary&#8230; and thanks for commenting on my blog..</p>
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		<title>By: IC</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-13924</link>
		<dc:creator>IC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2006 07:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-13924</guid>
		<description>Comrade, you ought to leave for Cuba instantly. Castro is old and on verge of death (thankfully so) and your above piece makes me think that you might be the best person to take over from Castro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comrade, you ought to leave for Cuba instantly. Castro is old and on verge of death (thankfully so) and your above piece makes me think that you might be the best person to take over from Castro.</p>
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		<title>By: Ceridwen Devi</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-13457</link>
		<dc:creator>Ceridwen Devi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 May 2006 14:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-13457</guid>
		<description>Nope. Well you can get there via my digg page. Does this prove some kind of conspiracy? Arghhhh! No, it's just Friday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope. Well you can get there via my digg page. Does this prove some kind of conspiracy? Arghhhh! No, it&#8217;s just Friday.</p>
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		<title>By: Ceridwen Devi</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-13451</link>
		<dc:creator>Ceridwen Devi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 May 2006 14:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-13451</guid>
		<description>http://digg.com/links/Free_the_market,_please...
Let's see if it works this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://digg.com/links/Free_the_market,_please.." rel="nofollow">http://digg.com/links/Free_the_market,_please..</a>.<br />
Let&#8217;s see if it works this time.</p>
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		<title>By: Ceridwen Devi</title>
		<link>http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/comment-page-1/#comment-13448</link>
		<dc:creator>Ceridwen Devi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 May 2006 14:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shorno.net/2006/05/19/free-the-free-market-please/#comment-13448</guid>
		<description>Well said. I've dugg it!
http://digg.com/links/Free_the_market,_please...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said. I&#8217;ve dugg it!<br />
<a href="http://digg.com/links/Free_the_market,_please.." rel="nofollow">http://digg.com/links/Free_the_market,_please..</a>.</p>
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