Happening now in Caracas, Venezuela (January 24-29, 2006)
also, its a polycentric Forum this year,so the Karachi bit will be in March 2006. Check this site for details.
Thousands marched through the Venezuelan capital, Caracas, at the start of the World Social Forum. You can read the latest on Red Pepper”s Venezuela blog here.
Also, hello to Josef who”s blogging from Caracas as we speak - @ the Caracas TrollParty - read more on that here:uniteddiversity blog
Thousands searching for UTOPIA….. Who says the quest for el dorado ended in venezeula?
who says the quest has ended at all
anyway i don’t think people who are actually in the attempt to reform of our social institutions and social policy can be accused of being ‘utopians’ just because they demand reform. More likely they’re practical realists out and about to do something. You may also find that a lot of perfectionists are the ones who’re actually being the utopians. ANd we all know perfectionists don’t get much done. I should know i’m one, and i’m certainly not much of a ‘practical’ anything, but an observer, thinker and critic.
Ven,
If you are looking for Utopia then a Stalinist blog like this one is the last place you are going to find it.
Some figment of the new utopia to dawn was reflected in the Bush’s state of the union address. There were significant suggesstions in fact, I think Bush was alluding to something really pertinent, like a march towards a brave new world, that will see the woes of mankind getting solved once and for all.
No doubt then that the slimy leftists are barking their heads off in response to Bush speech. The leftists will oppose anything that professes to help mankind.
Sonia,
You poor, poor ‘fat’ little thing! So you really saw some leftist spirit in Bush speech.
I really pity you! You are behaving like a typical commie who has just returned home after squishing dozens of catterpillars.
How badly to fail to judge that gentleman president, who only has the intersts of humanity in his heart. You need to hear his speech more carefully next time round and then you will understand his greatness. Amen!
The only reason why there will be change in society is when the less previleged really harm the more previleged. UTOPIA is a myth - Just survival of the fittest.
yes maybe u should look up the definition of utopia..Anyway what’s the fuss? you two can’t see the wood for the trees anyway, nevermind anything else. This is so obviously not a ‘Stalinist’ blog it makes me giggle to see it. But you go on and on, perhaps you think its because I would find it annoying? ( like you lot imagine the ‘fat’ thing is somehow annoying [
] I guess it might be if i didn’t find it so darn funny..
So amusing BB - still avoiding the point. You said that the Environment is a ‘Lefty’ Conspiracy and anything ‘green’ was all ‘Stalinist’ and really red.
but now mr. bush has turned coat and not only underlined the energy crisis and the need for alternative fuel suddenly in his State of the Union speech but is now suddenly rushing around talking about ‘the oil addiction’..
so suddenly Bush is all caring about the world’s problems. Seems to be stuff to you is a problem or not based on whose mouth it’s coming out of. so if its sth your simple mind says ‘capitalist’ - zoom - boom its Good, its Utopia. If its sth your simple radar says - Red=Stalin- boom zoom its ‘Conspiracy’. How original.
Interesting to see anyway what mr. bush is planning to do. its so funny to see that baboon suddenly jumping up and down and going all ‘green’ ..sounds like somone told him what ‘oil’ and ‘SUV’ mean..
I think Bush has made a point. Better more efficient fuel is always the need of the day. That is how humanity progresses. Buy inventing and discovering better technologies.
And if we can find a cheaper source of energy which is also more efficient than gasoline then the world will can only get better.
But we cannot ditch oil till an alternate fuel is discovered. That is the whole point.
well a lot of environmentalists also made the point that finding renewable sources of energy was precisely that: efficient. oh but then they said that people like you said ah well you’re a leftist so anything you say is…**!!%%7&..
Sonia,
So here we are definition of utopia:
Main Entry: uto·pia
Pronunciation: yu-’tO-pE-&
Function: noun
Etymology: Utopia, imaginary and ideal country in Utopia (1516) by Sir Thomas More, from Greek ou not, no + topos place
1 : an imaginary and indefinitely remote place
2 often capitalized : a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions
3 : an impractical scheme for social improvement
http://www.webster.com/dictionary/utopia
Care to show me how I am missing the point about demonstrations in Venezeuala? Utopia does not exist. Class inequalities will always exist. There is nothing good nor bad about class inequalities. It is nothing but a law of nature.
The only way those people who are marching on the streets of Venezeula can get what they want, by changing status quo, is by really harming the powers that be. Remember French Revolution? American Revolution? Russian Revolution? Less dramatic are strikes by labor unions that hurt an owner. Sit ins etc. If the owner is more powerful, those strikes are of no use. Its always survival/enrichment of the fittest. If weak cannot win they tend to gang up. There is nothing bad or good about all this - Just laws of nature.
Yet in Venezeuala they search for UTOPIA!!!!!!
“Utopia does not exist.”
——-
Ven,
Sorry, but I must protest that statement. Utopia can exist, it call if we can find a way to make extinct the dastardly race of communists and religious fundamentalists.
A society managed by the system of complete is what Utopia is. Yes, I do agree with you that the term Utopia has come down to us from the realm of fiction. But so have many other terms. For example before the technology that could make man fly or to create marvels like Internet, space rockets etc could be discovered, these things were imagined by fiction writers. In a capitalist society yesterdays fiction is tomorrows reality.
And so is Utopia. Utopia seems impossible to you because you are demoralized and you think that real capitalism is just not possibe in a world full of communists like Sonia. But beleive me the days of communists are numbered. Everyone from India to China to Africa has realized how evil communism is.
And that is what makes me so confident that the world is on a fasttrack towards an Utopia, where a capitalist environment will pave way to wonderful human rights standards and new discoveries and inventions will be the order of the day…..
BB,
It is supreme irony that you say UTOPIA can be obtained by banning Commies and Religious Fundos. For the people who seek UTOPIA are exactly these people! Heaven is UTOPIA for the religious Fundos and removal of Class inequalities is the UTOPIA for commies.
My entire thesis of being realistic, is showing people that such things dont exist. Our societies have been created with the irrefutable fact of social darwinism. I just ask people to open their eyes and see it.
Capitalism, is nothing but an extension of this reality.
Ven,
I agree with the emotional content of the views you have expressed though I cannot bring myself to agree with the factual content of the same.
The fact is that the communists have hijacked the concept of Utopia, as they have hijacked the concept of welfare of workers. For example if you read Orwell’s 1984 you will find how communists can destroy concepts by turning them on their head. In 1984 the Ministry of Love is involved in largescale torture, the Ministry of Truth is involved in spreading disinformation, Ministry of Peace is involved with warfare, and so on and so forth. Thus the communists distroy love and truth and peace…
Similarly the communists around the world have tried to destroy the concept of Utopia by causing poverty and pestilence in the name of movements towards Utopia. We should not given in to the communist scumbags. It is time for the capitalists of the world to reclaim Utopia. Utopia can and will exist, but for that we have destroy communism for the final time.
Let the battle begin……
Ven & Sonia,
The world is in black and white. Either you will have Utopia or you will have Stalin’s dungeons. It cannot be the both at the same time. So before you guys go on decrying Utopia, you should give a look to what a dastardly sort of society is the alternative.
yeah sure. It sounds to me like if anyone’s a ‘marxist’ ( or the popular understanding of ‘marxism’ anyway) around here its Ven. ‘Class’ inequalities..i guess you’ve decided you want to be on the ‘top dog’ side rather than one of the of ones who suffer, and sure, i can understand your motives and thinking.
if you can’t beat ‘em - join ‘em.
Sure.
Anyway, i’m fairly dystopic ( as someone recently pointed out) myself so good luck to the both of you.
p.s. Ven - it sounds like you keep referring to what would otherwise be called ‘violent revolution’…
“if you can’t beat ‘em - join ‘em. ”
Law of evolution. Thanks for observing the obvious. Instead of finding ways to improve opportunities you Sonia and your comrades seek ways to penalize the achievers. You have no idea how much I worked to get to where I am do you? I cannot blame you for you hardly know me.
You guys cant think of spreading education. You guys cant think of investing money in projects that bring employment. You guys cant think of encouraging entrepreurship. You guys cant think of making societies equal opportunity. You guys can think of reducing beurocratic red tapism. Cant you?
Yet you guys can only think of Oil embargoes (Hugo Chavezes own words), Increasing drug production (The new lefty leader from Bolivia, Chavezes comrade in arms ) so that poor farmers dont suffer, stopping the construction of dams (Arundhati Roy, also going to the Social rally in Venezeuala), Increasing subsidies (Spainish prime minister Zapatero also a big lefty supporting Chavez), Stop globalization etc.
If you and your comrades succeed, what can we do? - Nothing.
“if you can’t beat ‘em - join ‘em. ” Certainly why not?
Your IPs have been recorded BB and Ven, the secret SS police is on it’s way to take you off for secret execution. Conform to the Patriot Act.
ditto ven - you’re absolutely right i don’t know you. and similarly - you don’t know me either. and - i can understand completely where you might be coming from. Again i’m not sure why you think anything i’ve said is aimed at ‘punishing the achievers’.
amusingly, people do conform to the ‘“if you can’t beat ‘em - join ‘em’ - why not as you say. i just don’t think it’s actually that simple - there’s no ‘line’ which separates ‘them’ from ‘us’ - the complex nature of interaction in society means that at any point in time, it’s likely that an individual on the one hand is affected ‘negatively’ by these forces, and at the same time, on the other hand, is effecting ‘negatively’ something or someone else somewhere else.
yah so there you have it - swinging between utopia, the status quo and some sort of ‘progress’ to an in-between point.
also i do find it amusing how you use the ‘comrade’ terminology to address me when actually the language of ‘marxism’ is much more in line with what you’ve been saying.
violent revolution and all that. i always think its hilarious when people say Revolution! what’s a revolution again ..let’s see.. hmm one revolution of the wheel - and where are we back to:? square bloody one.
Hello, I from Russia. Badly I speak in English. Tell, please, where in your country is better to meet new year? And that I on business trip at you will be one, the country I do not know, I know nothing