Past Present & Future

yeah that’s right. actually its quite interesting to see how a lot of people in the discussion around de Menezes’ death still hang onto information that has since been questioned.

By sonia on Dec 9, 2005

ha ha who said i was freaked up? really some of u like to jump the gun. go read the post i didnt actually say anything in particular. as j0nz points out this poor bloke did say he had a bomb which is a highly unfortunate thing to do at airports - even as a joke..that’s the sad situation we’re all in. now it may turn out that he ‘hadn’t taken his medication’ as his wife said ( who was described as hysterical - but i daresay seeing as she was not able to stop the situation was fair enough!)

however - i hadn’t said this in my post - but i still wonder why it is in these situations - we can’t use those tranquilizer things they use on wild animals being taken to zoos etc. ? and also the’dart’ thingies the Birmingham police used to take down a suspect - and then the London Met were like hey..you shouldn’t have done that - there was a bit of a hoo-ha ( i suppose cos it came out that there were these dart gun thingies..which they could have used) about - perhaps the air marshals could have one of those? At the end of the day if you shoot someone who’s potentially got explosives - how’s that going to help - surely it will only detonate them quicker. Common sense you imagine would dictate that as sth these authorities ought to take into account, even if they aren’t bothered with human life.

bihari babu im not particularly fond of authorities anywhere and in particular i detest authoritarian regimes. Totalitarian conformity is to me what communism is to you ( hah haha) you’re a bit stupid in not realizing that all societies and social groups- from the group of giggly girls to a football club to a religious group to a nation-state to everything in between has the unfortunate capacity of exhibiting a desire for this sort of conformity. anyway- switch off your ‘oh well there are ppl being murdered there in greater no.’s - [okay so why dont you go and blog about it]- just cos i happen to be discussing one event somewhere doesn’t preclude the possibility of being concerned about the innocents being ‘murdered’ elsewhere,does it now.

Since i seem to be termed a ‘wishy-washy’ liberal - fine let’s go with that - yeah i think that its all terrible. Whereas YOU my friend, only care if ppl are being murdered by ‘communists’ - you don’t mind if its a bunch of ‘capitalists’ doing it - so you see - but that’s your problem. [Its very silly that stupid people in power/ or stupid people on the streets do the same thing everywhere and everyone else is busy pretending its not similar, so and so in such and such a place DESERVED to die,but not so and so in such and such and other place,where the murderers were DESPICABLE cowards..]

oof im fed up with the world’s stupidity if people want to go and kill people why dont you they all fuck off to mars or sth and leave the rest of us down here! No no its just an endless game of justifying X’s death because Y told us so but it was okay for Z to do much the same thing but hey thats cool cos Z is a cool guy.

Ha

By sonia on Dec 10, 2005

and i think Bihari Babu ( IC in disguise no doubt) didnt get Ven’s oh so sarcastic comment…

By sonia on Dec 10, 2005

do you know what i think Moonbat is a more appropriate term for Bihari Babu ( and IC’s kind of thinking) : let’s sacrifice sanity to be consistent.

well how far are you willing to go to fulfil that - come on then lads - off you go to Baghdad then and see if you’re willing to be mistaken by the soldiers as some iraqi insurgent..if you’re so willing to show the world the beauty of the ‘ideology’ of a freedom which only comes with shrapnel - why go ahead. Go right ahead. so let’s see - judging from what we’re told over here, ( and in the US ..and countless other places) that our civil rights and even democracy isn’t as important as national security - because we have to PROTECT the nation - ( thereby implying they want to protect us. fine - let’s accept that for a sec. )

oh BUT in those shitty countries, democracy and civil rights are SO important its worth dropping bombs on their heads to BRING them democracy. never mind that by the time no one wants to leave their houses it doesn’t really matter.

so where’s the consistency there? This is addressed to the world is BLack and White - ( let’s not get into side arguments about the various reasons for the silly war - assume it was the way the govts said - having accepted that democracy is so neccessary that its fine to accept a level of death necessary for that to flourish) - so please explain this consistency to me?

one situation - we’re told - must accept limiting of rights and the ability to speak out democratically and protest ( in the case of the US its very difficult to protest anymore) for your PHYSICAL protection, and then oh in another place - MUST accept the PHYSICAL HARM which may result because your RIGHTS and DEMOCRACY are more important.

hmm…

By sonia on Dec 10, 2005

now you see - for those smart asses amongst you will have realized - what’s going on - i.e. the rationale behind this thinking that i highlighted up above - is that someone has decided its worth sacrificing a few individuals ( okay lets assume they really did think it would be a few and not like loads..) to bring democracy to the STATE. after all - that’s what’s important - the NATION -STate needs to be ‘improved’ so we’ll do it for them. After all our nation-states are in fine form, never mind the individual citizens, who gives a shit about them.

so you see, there’s nothing different in this kind of thinking to the kind of thinking the Communist Nation-States espoused - its the State that’s important to apply the ‘ideology’ to - fuck the individuals - who gives a shit about them#?

and that mon ami’s - is the tragedy of how stupid groups of people take the notions of helping others and giving individuals a voice in a free fair equal society ( simply put a -social democracy - but sounds like Utopia in our shitty current state) and turned it into nightmares - e.g. the Communist State and this running around the world imposing ‘democracy/religion/ ‘our views’ on people. Just like Orwell said in Animal farm - i think if we fool ourselves that ALL of these things aren’t the same - then we run the risk of not getting what Orwell said.

and yes it comes down to understanding the ’social’, not the state, not economics not the military - because all those things are simply sub-sets of the ’social’

there’s my rant for the morning im off to smoke my spliff in peace.

By sonia on Dec 10, 2005

ha ha

dont worry bihari babu and ven - living in blighty one has to deal with plenty of sarcasm!! ha ha. yes the brummy lot used a taser - better than killing someone i say. and yes of course everyone will disagree. why shouldn’t they?! as you can see yourselves im sure you’ll find it hard to find people who can agree on everything..the freedom to disagree is important. Why otherwise you’re living in totalitarian conformity - and who wants that? ..

And im not quite sure why you seem to think ( both of you) that you don’t find liberals amongst the capitalists..?

thorough going amusement this blog! the kinds of things grown up men like to say…

khek khek

By sonia on Dec 11, 2005

obviously the ‘Left’ - whatever that may represent - can be as predujiced as the ‘Right’. As i’ve said many times elsewhere on this site ( but you guys can’t read can you and you like to stick to your bipolar view of the world) there is absolutely no sense in having this simplistic notion that everything in the world is on this left-right spectrum - precisely because - what’s the point? there are just as many people with exactly the same thing wrong with them - on one end, as there are on the other ‘end’. It’s going back to the same sort of falsely constructed ‘othering’ when actually those at ‘either end’ of the spectrum have much in common with each other. Both blindly insisting they’re right, they agree with you and IC about the black and white thesis..there you go..they’re the sort of people you ought to be addressing your comments to - not me.

At the end of the day, notions of ‘left’ and ‘right’ are outdated, even when discussing political parties - which is where it sprung from - i dont think it was ever useful, and certainly in British politics its pretty useless. political parties are highly suspect groups in my sociological opinion - dogmatic as any religion - The Party! - and is in need of reform.

[Political parties like the Socialist Workers Party who probably call themselves the ‘hard’ Left haven’t got much in common with anyone else, i think they’re as silly as say the Republicans in the US. Luckily they’re not much good at getting votes.]

i think im going to have to put a post up about the origins of this ‘Left-Right’ business, people are so ignorant. Even if there is such a construct in history, why do they assume everyone now still conceptualizes their argument by holding on to ’sides’? They keep trying to assume, in any ‘discussion’ that its a ‘fight’ with two sides - and that the other person they’re ‘arguing’ with must be able to be ‘mapped onto’ whichever side ( left/right) they normally like to attack.

goes for most people, but not this liberal no black and white therefore no simple concepts like left-right. You won’t find me defending the ‘left’ in such simple terms since there are plenty of dodgy ppl on the ‘Left’ who share the exact same problems as some on the ‘right’. I used the political compass example with someone to indicate that there are many other factors that they might want to consider if they are going to insist on this sort of thing.

By sonia on Dec 12, 2005

i’m so sorry Ven and IC that i speak and think on such a different level to the both of you - we are in completely different paradigms. I guess you guys can’t understand that, you seem to keep insisting on this ‘Left-Right’ thing..well what can you expect from a troll and an engineer…

khek khek

By sonia on Dec 12, 2005