tonight’s lecture @ LSE
November 30, 2005 – 4:29 pmjust a quick reminder regarding an old post : tonight at 6.30 the guardian’s gary younge will be speaking at the LSE on ‘how the war on terror is wrecking britain’s landscape’. i will be attending this hopefully if i can get out of work on time! and will be ‘reporting’ back.
34 Responses to “tonight’s lecture @ LSE”
Gary Younge, Moonbat in progress!
By j0nz on Dec 1, 2005
Gary Younge talks a load of lefty trite
By j0nz on Dec 1, 2005
heh heh actually he was quite eloquent and not given to conspiracy theories of oh they decided to let the people in new orleans die because ‘they is poor and black’ - which some folk in the audience were trying to suggest - that it was an out and out decision on the part of the ‘authorities’ to do such a thing.
By sonia on Dec 1, 2005
actually ’sacrificing sanity for consistency’ - sounds more like IC’s comments to me ha hah !
By sonia on Dec 1, 2005
You think jihadists play by the gentlemen’s rules of war fare?
Not here
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/140152.php
By j0nz on Dec 1, 2005
he heh i dont imagine any such thing..are you asking me or telling me? incidentally do you really think anyone ( e.g. governments) ever ‘actually’ play by the ‘rules’ of war?( haaaaaah not heard anything so funny for a while you are amusing) if you think so then you’re a babe in arms - or someone who’s never been in a war - if so - lucky you!
im sure you’re not trying to imply to those of us who have - that the ‘rules’ were followed… oh how kind of you to let us know ..i could have sworn otherwise…How glib and facetious it is for others to say when its not their own heads bombed. ( sorry i dont give a fuck about ‘groups’ -[ this group/that group nonsense] or right or wrong or left and right… i give a fuck about individuals and the non-explosion of blood vessels - i dont give a fuck whose blood vessels either - every one has a right to non-rupture of blood vessels: sorry that doesn’t really sit very well with war/bombs ..)
do you think to a victim it matters who chucked a bomb - in terms of the ’social’ legitimization i mean -(enjoyed or not enjoyed ) by the perpetrators - do you really think it makes a difference to the individual? it only matters to the group conferring such a legitmization or withholding it..not the poor sod who’s dead and gone.
well you may or may not agree. me i believe in fundamental human rights - war is terror in my opinion. I believe in peace.
if that makes me a hippy liberal good. your opinions are starting to lower you to the level of the ‘jihadists’.
By sonia on Dec 1, 2005
I love the blog Sonia, stay warm. Ignore the neocon rants, they don’t respond to logic. “War on terror” = “Neocon Imperialism”, that’s all I can say on that.
Bless your cotton socks.
By Mark on Dec 1, 2005
Sonia, you incense me with your lefty views. Note that in 1937 those opposed the War on Hitler and his Fascist empire where, surprise surprise ‘the left’.
“War is terror”. Such a simplistic view of the nature of humanity and the way it interacts as societies, is, well … 1 can short of six pack.
By j0nz on Dec 2, 2005
n Mark you’re of the most simplistic of aforementioned twats. At least Sonia has some intellect. You have only just learnt your ABC.
By j0nz on Dec 2, 2005
I don’t know Sonia, stupid me is distinguishing between a military force directed by democratically elected governments whose aim is to destroy anti-democratic forces versus an ‘insurgency’ that specifically targets Shia or Sunni Muslims with upto 100 casualties at a time, whose aims range from Baathism to imposed Sunni or Shia Islamic rule - all of which deny the iraqi people to choice - democracy.
I suppose your solution is to cut & run? Or at least ‘give a timetable for withdrawal’? Sod the fact that we’ve gone in there.. leave ‘em to it, eh Sonia?!
By j0nz on Dec 2, 2005
What, you are selectively ignoring the fact the “Hitler” here is personified by Bush. This idea is not from Sonia’s blog either, it’s the opinion of those who have compared the similarities of Bush gov with fascism. DU, illegal detentions, torture, secret prison camps…. not to mention Gulf War Syndrome, abuse of returning veterans by the state, forceful enlistment, the social inequalities in the US, the polution, the propagandist media…
By Mark on Dec 2, 2005
Please also clarify what exactly is democratic about a 2 party system representing the same policies. Not to mention the electoral fraud in the last elections.
By Mark on Dec 2, 2005
If you want to eliminate terrorism then the US and Israel will need better diplomatic relations with the muslim world.
If you want security for Israel, again you will need to build better relations with the muslim world.
If all you are interested in is easy economic gain from oil investment bought earlier or before the conflict, well then of course you’ll support the Bush administration.
By Mark on Dec 2, 2005
Mark, I’m trying to ignore your previous 2 comments since it’s typical ultra-leftist hsyterical trite compeltely and utterly obssesed with the foibles of Bush & and America. It’s not perfect, but what is? Europe? Certainly nowhere in the middle-east.
And that I think is your problem. You are programmed to attack the capitalist society, to hate everything about it. That’s why you ally yourselves with Islamic exteremists. It’s quite frankly twisted and perverted.
You bang on about the rights of TERRORISTS being ‘treated badly’ (not beheaded but perhaps being pissed on or forced to listen to Britney Spears), yet you are conspicuously silent about China, Sudan, Iran where the state is totalitarian, brutal, and often enforced with quite gruesome oppression, and in the case of Sudan genocide.
Now for your 3rd comment, you seem to have landed back into the land of reality. Although;
If you want to eliminate terrorism then the US and Israel will need bette diplomatic relations with the muslim world.
1. This is utter bollocks. How can you eliminate terrorism?
2. Better relations with the Muslim world - but how exactly? Supporting corrupt dictatorships? Not supporting corrupt dictatorships? How then do they support the Muslim population? Or do they leave them to it? I thought that was one of their ‘issues’ with the USA?
Islamic theologians have long despised Western culture go back into early 20th century for some Muslim intellectuals writing about the constant sins of the infidel culture. Iran was saying Death to America decades ago. Why? They are the biggest infidel nation in the world. If you can’t see that there is really no hope for you.
In 1967 the goal of Arab states was to ELIMINATE Israel. Not for peaceful negotation, to rid the holy land of the infidels. The Jewish nation, having been nearly wiped out in WW2, decided they wasn’t going to be wiped out again. And this time they was able to defend themselves. Not only that but expand their territory. No if a whole street tried to have your family murdered wouldn’t you think some sort of compensation was allowed?
By j0nz on Dec 2, 2005
war is terror - but how would you know whether that’s true or not? But that’s besides the point now and doesn’t matter as long as our personal skins are not in danger - at the end of the day i can see why its not real for people who haven’t been involved in conflict. whatever, nevermind.
anyway my interest does not lie again - in simplistically aligning things on one long linear scale and categorizing people or ideas - but in seeing/analysing/critiquing how we humans construct our social reality and the representations we endow on our social groups, how we construct meaning and social legitimacy etc. So i reckon j0nz ignoring you and other’s constant harping of lefty this that ( well there are plenty of left-wingers who wholeheartedly with disagree with the tone of my thoughts and what they would call [postmodern] as opposed to their [modernist] viewpoints; and anyway anti-war sentiments aren’t the monopoly or property of the ‘Left’ )
frankly yes im certainly not in the grand meta-narrative modernist page of thinking. so your six pack comment - typical of the comments from ‘modernists’ to ‘postmodernists’..
By sonia on Dec 2, 2005
anyway left and right only have been applied in the past to a spectrum political parties positioned themselves on. the party politics system itself needs reform and i for one certainly am not into this im in favour of one party vs. another - the whole current political system sucks pretty big time - in my opinion anyway.
By sonia on Dec 2, 2005
Well I agree. I just don’t suffer fools lightly!
I want to get that T-shirt, you know the one that says “I see dumb people”
By j0nz on Dec 2, 2005
i’m not ‘right wing’
It’s just Galloway and his lying ilk really piss me off.Im a centrist.
By j0nz on Dec 2, 2005
Ok, tell me what you think after reading this story.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,999737,00.html
By Mark on Dec 3, 2005
well no one likes being put in a box especially other people’s classifications .. anyway this business about people’s rights..the concept of universal human rights is simple - as a human everyone has basic rights - which no one else should take away from them - as we can all see once you get past the universal human rights idea - it simply becomes a normative judgement as to who has rights ( e.g. to live) and who doesn’t and then it gets screwy. no-one HAS to respect anyone’s rights - clearly a lot of that going on all around the world unfortunately - and its simply a case of being aware of the fact that when people dont respect others’ rights, often their rights don’t get respected either. the reciprocal violence that often results doesn’t legitimize anything - it just leads to non-stop violence. if people want to get out of that vicious cycle - that’s when they need to start thinking about these issues. otherwise - things carry on in a nasty cycle. Hey…some people ’say so what..as long as i’m on the winning side, who gives a fuck..’
ah well!
By sonia on Dec 3, 2005
“Jewish” population, since there was no nation before WWII, unless you go way back in time.
The representation of which nations are ruled by dictatorship is somehow offset in the CIA, depending on the interest they have in it (usually economicaly).
So is the definition of democracy, which stands with the corruption-friendly US system, which resembles many modern power-house democracies. Which are mostly about favouring the bourgeoisie, and keeping the richest richest.
Yes, mostly leave them to it for better relations. If the population is really fed up with the tyrant, he will be thrown out. In the case of Iraq the Shia uprising could have been given the promised support.
The problem with situation in Israel was not respecting the agreed UN partion. Along with the ethnic cleansing and robbing of homes and land from the people who were living there (the Palestinians), who were not even necesarily muslim.
The US gives billions in “aid” to Israel for weapons etc. All this while IDF are commiting international law violations. In this sense there is no moral ground to stand on.
“Not only that but expand their territory. No if a whole street tried to have your family murdered wouldn’t you think some sort of compensation was allowed?”
That’s what the occupying forces were doing, murdering famillies and stealing houses and land.
By Mark on Dec 3, 2005
Sonia’s put it much better than I could have.
By Mark on Dec 3, 2005
Nighty night there, stay warm and cosy.
By Mark on Dec 3, 2005
Mark - thanks for the comment re: the blog
Cheers.
j0nz - depends on what you think the end-game is. clearly if anyone’s end game had been to save lives they wouldn’t have gone about ‘regime-change’ the way they did - they should have got some clever Mossad-types or sth to figure out how to do that for them. if life saving is the plan then yeah getting the soldiers out would save some lives. It would save theirs for a start! why doesn’t anyone care about them? ( Apart from a few mums who campaign etc. ) or are they just fodder ?!
obviously the argument the other way is ‘but we’re saving lives staying here.’ Sure -right!! ( lemme go count the body bags again..) What an arrogant statement. ( bit like a bunch of jihadis showing up on your doorstep and saying ‘but honey we’re saving your souls so in the long run…’ ??!!.)- it won’t matter to anyone else in the long run except for the victims and their families of course. its a lottery now - a life lottery. it was obvious from the beginning that it would end up this way - a lottery - who gets to live and who doesn’t..the problem is once you’ve set yourself up in the untenable position of playing with human life things get fucked and of course there ain’t no straight line - no straight exit - sorry - tough shit -you’d thinka country used to fighting wars would have figured that out!
a lot of people don’t seem to have also gotten the fundamental point that the soldiers are clearly not welcome in the country. hence plain logic dictates that till they leave someone out there is going to carry on killing. i dont know who - neither does anyone else seem to - so whats going to happen in situations like this - ( like the iran iraq war which lasted what -10 years?) is the more patient, or psychotic - of the lot waits it out. if the other side wants to put with that, by all means they should stay. Anyway back to the point of the end-game: the question i would ask all the people who imagine ( or did imagine) there was an end-game: is what end-game is that and how are the soldiers helping? and if anyone says democracy - i say anything at the end of a gun point isnt democracy but very simply just what it is - force. And only the biggest naive idiot thinks otherwise. face it what the pro-war crew has simply not admitted to is that what people said was right - the shit they got themselves into - go in it won’t be easy you’re not welcome this isn’t the way blah blah you’ll be in there for a long time you guys dont know the fuck what you’re doing. and were they right? can anyone actually say that the ‘military commanders’ have had a success. of course not. the military campaign has been an abysmal failure.
anyway so there’s no point me saying anything more because as i say - my point is this is an unethical way of going about fulfilling or attempting to fulfil geo-political ambitions. so its not going to be some abstract chess game to me like it is clearly to a whole bunch of people - including yourself. An unethical bloody chess game - that’s what it is.
By sonia on Dec 3, 2005
yeah since most people actually know jack-shit about the middle east and imagine there are no arabs who aren’t muslim ought to go and read William Dalrymple’s excellent book ‘From The Holy Mountain’ which looks at the birthplace of Christianity. A goodish lot of Palestinians are Christians - so obviously the Israel -Palestine issue was never one about religion( this so-called muslim-jewish divide) though its been portrayed as such and radicalized all sides as a result. ANyone who knows anything about history knows that but then how many people know much history anyway. not many!
the idea that arab = muslim is offensive to a lot of arabs, there’s no reason why islam should have monopoly over ‘arab-ness’. i mean some idiot from mars could come and say aha! i heard sth about the ‘Holy Roman Empire’ in Europe’s past so christian is synonymous with european. and then draw the conclusion that christianity has a monopoly over ‘europeanness’. ho ho - so does that mean all the lovely atheists who aren’t christian aren’t european? ooh ho ho…that’s news..somebody quick go tell everybody..
we’re all just a stupid lot of people..stupid snivelling fighty fighty silly people . Completely seem to have missed out on the whole ‘reflexivity’ thing. ha ha
By sonia on Dec 3, 2005
I love Gary Younge (more so now just to annoy j0nz. haha!) !!
By Sunny on Dec 3, 2005
Ok, tell me what you think after reading this story.
Umm proud to be in the West rather than the Middle East?! I’m sorry it doens’t matter how many screams about the right wing ne-cons you make, it will not change me into a pro-totaltiarian-fasicst dictator supporter like yourself!!!!
I fight for Freedom & Democracy - something you clearly don’t.
A goodish lot of Palestinians are Christians
Interesting you mention Christian Palestinians. They are victims of Islamo-fascist terror as much as anybody.
Palestinian Christians Are Persecuted
The P.A.’s constitution, which has yet to be ratified, is based on Shari’a, the strict Islamic religious law, Weiner said. (Shari’a relegates non-Muslims to an inferior status and also prohibits conversion from Islam to any other religion.)
Sunny, you would!
By j0nz on Dec 3, 2005
Sorry should be a link;
Palestinain Christians are Persecuted
By j0nz on Dec 3, 2005
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id4/christian_arabs.htm
By j0nz on Dec 3, 2005
obviously there’s a big population shift especially since the troubles! lots of people upping and leaving..anyway point is that the media makes out that the situation is something integral about muslims and jews being opposed to each other intrinsically, not the current lot stuck in a shitty situation being opposed to each other because of their context. typical of media hype what can you expect. it works on many levels - you wouldn’t find many muslims from other parts of the world so fired up about the situation if they’d realized a lot of people suffered, not just their ‘brethren’ and - vice versa.. a lot of people who feel anti-muslim feel fired up about it precisely for that reason.
the whole thing has just become symbolic for so many people that its not real to many people and possibly it gets overlooked that all the individuals ( israeli and palestinian, jedi or non-jedi) involved at the end of the day are human.
oh that would be too simple!
By sonia on Dec 4, 2005
“Weiner, a Jewish human rights lawyer” , it’s all too easy to pull out some propaganda, and say “this is the truth”. It’s a simple lie.
You need some reliable sources.
http://www.imemc.org/
http://electronicintifada.net/new.shtml
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml
http://electroniciraq.net/news/
By Mark on Dec 4, 2005
Many thanks for the links;
1.st link - Top Story “An Israeli source reported that five Israelis were killed, and fifty others were injured in the Netanya suicide bombing carried by a suicide bomber identified as Lutfi Amin Abu Saada, 21, from Allar village, near the west Bank city of Tulkarem.”
2. link im not visting a terrorist site, thanks all the same. You friends have just murdered five civilians viva a la resistance!!
3. indymedia are utter moonbats . They are conspiracy theories are pure lunacy
4. Top story “Abduction of four CPT members in Iraq”. No need for further comment.
Doesn’t really bolster your case too much doesn’t it, mate?
By j0nz on Dec 5, 2005
You have just shown, yourself that these souces are reliable.
As for indymedia, you have sifted out the most unlikely stories out of the thousands available.
electronicintifada is a terrorist site? If that’s what you believe….
Anyhow, I found a great blog here with a ton of great links.
http://milfuegos.blogspot.com/
By Mark on Dec 6, 2005
Sonia,
“..anyway point is that the media makes out that the situation is something integral about muslims and jews being opposed to each other intrinsically, not the current lot stuck in a shitty situation being opposed to each other because of their context. typical of media hype what can you expect. it works on many levels ”
Bin laden didnt attack america because of CONTEXT. Just become an Al jazeera journalist, and try to interview him and ask him about his thoughts of ISLAMIC supremacy.
In the same way the Jewish settlers who threatened to commit suicide on being evicted from gaza, wouldnt have had so much passion if they didnt follow the word of GOD.
Sorry to tell you the truth, JEWS and MUSLIMS seek the kingdom of heaven at JERUSALEM. Temple of Solomon and Al Quds is all what this conflict in ME all about.
JEWS wouldnt have come to ME, after prosecution in Europe if not for their religion. MUSLIMS never killed OTTAMAN turks who were the original rulers of the holy land. Turks were muslims and they never had problems with them.
RELIGION breeds hatred!
By ven on Dec 10, 2005